On Monday in the House of Commons, Patrick McLoughlin MP asked a question during the session with the Home Secretary. His question was: “What progress is being made in bringing together the work of the police service and the fire service as emergency services? Is there not a case also for looking at whether the ambulance service should come under the same jurisdiction?” The nature of the question meant that Amber Rudd passed over to Nick Hurd who is the Minister responsible for Police and Fire and Rescue Services. His answer was pretty poor if one was expecting the question and answer to correspond: “I thank my right hon. Friend for his question. To his last point, the answer is yes, and Northamptonshire is a good example of where emergency services are working across the lights. I am delighted to say that on 1 October, Roger Hirst of Essex police became the country’s first police, fire and crime commissioner. Six other police and crime commissioners have submitted proposals to take on fire, and we aim to make an announcement soon.” The reality is that taking the last point of McLoughlin‘s question, the Ambulance Service comes under a different department and the challenge of persuading Whitehall departments to cooperate is huge. However there is a much more significant issue within this question which the Government seems to constantly forget. I have written about it before. When the Police and Crime Commissioners were formed, they were given responsibility as the name states for both Police and Crime issues. There are of course many elements of Policing that demand blue light operations, and long before the PCC’s came to post, Police and Fire Services had experimented with join operations, and in some cases with Ambulances too. However just as Police work extends well beyond blue light activity, so too does the work of Fire and Rescue Services. It is clearly much better to prevent fires and Road Traffic incidents than to attend to the scenes of them. I recall back in the early noughties when I was privileged to be a member of the East Sussex Strategic Partnership (a committee I later was elected to Chair!). The then Chief Fire Officer Des Prichard gave an example of how the ESSP would assist him in his work. He explained about a road that crossed the Pevensey Marshes which at certain times of day at certain times of the year was prone to road accidents. This was because of the direction and angle of the sun. His suggestion was that we work together to get trees planted in that area to reduce the impact of the sun. There are many examples that one could give of how Police and Fire and Rescue Services need to work outside of the Blue Light environment. However much more concerning than this is the challenge of bringing together in an effective way, the Criminal Justice System which a small number of PCC’s have grasped, but which, like the bringing together of the Home Office and Health, demands Whitehall Cooperation. Persuading the Home Office and the Ministry of Justice to work together is something that will demand a great deal more than a simple question to Nick Hurd. However if Patrick and his colleagues are serious about improving the way their public services work together it will be a much more valuable lesson than sharing back office elements between the Fire, Police and Ambulance Service, something that already takes place in many areas of the country.