It is always disturbing when the ignorance of our Government is disclosed in such a blatant way as the answer to this question from Jenny Jones provides, one might hope in a Government that claims to be accountable that they would then resolve to change! The question shown here from Jenny Jones led to a response from Susan Williams who is the equalities Minister as well as the Minister responsible for countering extremism. Her first response to the question was “My Lords, there are no national statistics currently available relating to the authorisation of juvenile CHISs. However, the Home Office has been made aware of academic research into the use of juvenile CHISs which contains a number of case studies. They include the age of the juvenile CHIS, the youngest of whom is 15 years of age.”

It would have been far easier to have admitted a lack of knowledge than to attempt to imply that a few case studies reflect the nature of the issue. So Jenny asked again “I thank the Minister for her reply. I had hoped that the Home Office would itself start recording the names and ages of these children, who are vulnerable young criminals who have been caught by the police and are then put straight back into criminal gangs to act as spies. Will the noble Baroness please commit the Home Office to keeping a proper record of these children—their names, ages and the serious crimes for which they have been arrested before being sent back into these gangs?”

All of this makes real sense and in some respect raises higher the challenge that the Government should have this data. However Susan came back with another pathetic response “I certainly will not undertake to commit the Home Office to giving the names of these individuals, because that would breach data protection laws. However, the Investigatory Powers Commissioner recently wrote to the Joint Committee on Human Rights with an estimate of how many children we are talking about. He estimates that there are fewer than 10 at any one time. He has now undertaken to collect statistics on the number of juvenile CHISs in place and will consider how that information and his oversight in this area can be appropriately included in his annual reports in the future.”

It is time that a Government which seems obsessed when it comes to statistics from Schools over exam and test results for all ages starts to measure the impact of something as acute as this.